[Zero2Endless]

So, I'm sure you all know the stock Cube suspension has issues with body roll and X-winds, but it does ride nicely. Very smooth indeed. I want to keep it at the that same quality and the same ride height, but want to minimize the body roll and stuff. Would lighter wheels (anything seems to be lighter than steelies w/hubcaps) and strut bars do the trick? Any info/help is good help! Thanks everyone.

 

[Square1]

So, I'm sure you all know the stock Cube suspension has issues with body roll and X-winds, but it does ride nicely. Very smooth indeed. I want to keep it at the that same quality and the same ride height, but want to minimize the body roll and stuff. Would lighter wheels (anything seems to be lighter than steelies w/hubcaps) and strut bars do the trick? Any info/help is good help! Thanks everyone.

Zero, replacing your wheels with lighter ones won't have an effect on body roll. Wheels and tires are what is called "unsprung weight". To have an effect on body roll you would need to address the "Sprung" weight. And there are a couple way's to do this. Cut off the body (not a good option), Modify the suspension. Most suspension mods will help reduce body roll but usually change the ride quality and handling. When it comes to suspensions it sorta hard to have your cake and eat it too. There's always going to be some compromise somewhere. - Dan

 

[Zero2Endless]

-Dan,

Thanks for the info. I have to remember the whole unsprung/sprung thing. I remember going over that with my mechanic once. But it is indeed a compromise. On my GTI 337 it was a huge compromise. The car handled amazingly after I lowered it but it was too low for Cali roads and did take abuse from roads and cracks and crevices and all that "good" stuff. I think for now I'll just go with a strut bar and perhaps 15 x 8s? I'll have to look into a little later down the road. I wanted to ask around now so I could get a feeling for what to do or what other people have done to their Cubes.

-Omar

 

[Square1]

Omar, to combat body roll without much (if any) compromise to ride you can add or replace some goodies under the car. You can start by using heavier anti-roll bars. They usually don't have an impact on ride quality cruising down the highway and you will only notice them there when you take a hard turn at speeds, especially on bumpy roads. You can also add a strut bar. But schools still out on their usefulness (I know I'll get flamed for this). If you look at the front struts you will see that the strut towers are part of the firewall. In a design like this with the firewall integrated into the strut towers there will be very minimal strut tower flex, adding a strut bar will without a doubt add to the strength and rigidity of the strut towers / firewall, but I really doubt you will feel the difference. Many people will say they feel the difference, but the truth of the matter is what they're feeling is the loss of weight in their wallet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying not to install a strut bar, but be honest about why you’re doing it. I'm going to put one on my cube, not for it's superb handling improvement, but because it may help a bit and I love the way they look. Now if you had a car like many, where the strut towers are about halfway between the radiator support and firewall, adding a strut bar is a GREAT improvement you can honestly feel. - Dan

 

[teacozy]

Are you running the stock 15" wheels and tires? If so just get some decent wheels and tires. My cube 1.8s with the stock 15's felt like it would tip over at every turn and was scary at highway speeds. However, I went to 225/45 17's and the body roll is minimal. The stock suspension is actually pretty good in terms of ride compliance and handling. The original tires and wheels however suck balls. They were put on there for high mileage purposes only. I would get larger, wider wheels and tires before you start messing with the suspension.

 

[Anime Gee]

Sway bars will reduce body roll the most, but depending on how much time the engineers spent designing them, they can also induce understeer on FWD cars if they are not balanced out in the front & rear. If there is a matched set of sway bars out there for the USDM Cube, this would eliminate most of the body roll.

Next up would be some wider wheels like 16x8 wheels & mount 195/55-16 tires to stretch them slightly so that you can get the sharpest feel out of them or run 215/50-16 tires to fill them up better.

Just swapping out the sway bars, wheels, & tires would probably eliminate about 60% of the roll. Add coilovers & you'll get to about 95% roll-free, but at the cost of a harsh ride. However, the car will go to wherever you point it without much hesitation. (^_^ )

 

[damian666robin]

i already hit several local companies for some sway bars developments but seems like no one seems interested at all!
is gona take a couple years actually for a companie to get some interest for this car when it comes about suspension or performance

kinda like the xb when it first came out nobody wanted to make stuff for it, 5 months later you will find out all kinds of stuff including a turbo kit

 

[Anime Gee]

They will come out. The Cube will set another new trend like the 1st generation Scion xB (Toyota bB) did. Heck. I'm already starting to see companies building more wheels in the dreaded, they just don't sell, 4x114.3 bolt pattern.

So yeah. Just gonna have to wait a bit. If the JDM & USDM suspensions are equally the same, you can also start looking at companies in Japan for alternatives, but they will cost an arm & a leg for now.

 

[Cubit]

I did some static testing... (meaning the car was not moving LOL)

With the tires set at the stock pressure (SL cube with alloy wheels and Toyo A20 Tires) I rocked the car left-to right by pushing on the side of the car.

I was watching the space between the top of the wheel and the fenderwell for suspension movement. The car rocked quite a bit but the distance did not change. What changed was the space between the bottom of the wheel and the ground! In other words the tires are very squishy.

I could cause the car to rock in a 3-4" arc without articulating the suspension at all. This makes me believe that teacozy may be correct that replacing the wheels/tires may be the first step to improving the ride and reducing body roll. I tested this out a bit by raising my tire pressure from the stock recommended pressure (33PSI) to the maximum pressure stated on the sidewall of the tire which was 50PSI IIRC. I did the rock test again and the car was much more solid. It was actually hard to get the suspension to move at all. I also noticed that the car handles a lot better with less body roll but with reduced maximum grip. (cube in the twisties yaay!) 8)

I'm gonna get new wheels in the springtime anyway, so I will test this theory more next year! :yes:

 

[Square1]

Yeah Cubit the tires on the cube does indeed have a lot of sidewall flex. Going to a larger wheel and tire with a shorter side wall will in effect reduce some body roll. But keep in mind this will also reduce ride comfort. And some of the body roll it does reduce will be taken up by the suspension so the suspension itself will flex more.

Raising the tire pressure to remove some of the flex could be a very dangerous move. The recommended TP of 33 PSI was established based on the weight of the vehicle. Raising it to the max pressure as indicated on the tire could make you loose grip in corners causing you to crash. Keep in mind that the max TP indicated on the tire is only there to tell you how much TP the tire can withstand. 50 PSI may be OK on a car weighing 4000 lb or so but not a good idea on a cube.

If handling and playing in the twisties is what you want to accomplish, handling improvement should be addressed using a combination of correct tire and wheels, anti roll bars, springs, etc.

Again, raising TP above what's recommended is dangerous on a daily driven family car. - Dan

 

[Cubit]

Raising the tire pressure to remove some of the flex could be a very dangerous move. The recommended TP of 33 PSI was established based on the weight of the vehicle. Raising it to the max pressure as indicated on the tire could make you loose grip in corners causing you to crash. Keep in mind that the max TP indicated on the tire is only there to tell you how much TP the tire can withstand. 50 PSI may be OK on a car weighing 4000 lb or so but not a good idea on a cube.

If handling and playing in the twisties is what you want to accomplish, handling improvement should be addressed using a combination of correct tire and wheels, anti roll bars, springs, etc.

Again, raising TP above what's recommended is dangerous on a daily driven family car. - Dan

Thanks for the reminder on Max Tire pressure. :yes: I wholeheartedly agree don't raise the pressure on a car you are going to continue to drive, especially in slippery conditions.

I was merely pointing out that after driving the car with the higher TP I noticed a lot of the body roll was gone. You are right that the *correct* fix is to modify the tires/wheels/springs/rollbars/rideheight , but if retaining the smoothest possible ride is the aim then you do have to live with *some* body roll as it is a compromise between squishiness and control. My test was to find where the biggest contributor to body roll is, and the sidewall flex you mentioned is enormous! 8)





(lowers pressure back to reccommended spec)

 

[AyaRei]

They will come out.

It sounds like Field Of Dreams in here. "If you build it, he will come..."

I can't say anything though as I will say the same thing. I forgot where I read it, but with and estimated 30-something thousand estimated to be sold in the first year, there should be some decent demand for aftermarket products for it. I am so looking forward to it.

 

[armadillo]

Here's what I did on my Eclipse GS-T and the results if it helps:

Strut tower braces F&R: marginal, but it helps with the huge hole in the back because of the hatchback design. Came from a 300ZX Turbo which was stiff as a board - no frame flex. GS-T was like driving a bowl of Jello by comparison, so it helped to have even a small gain.

MATCHED set of sway bars: big difference, especially when switching back & forth L to R. Tracked better on those sweeping flyovers - not a Z, but better. The Z could be set into a turn with little steering input, GS-T still requires constant corrections, but better. Helped a lot with lean.

7.5" wheels & big ol' hog tires w/soft compound: BIG difference, mainly on how fast and tight you can turn. No effect on lean. Switched to cheaper, harder tires due to quick wear and cost, work almost as well.

Balls-out shocks: BIG difference, really planted it to the ground, much more predictable handling. Beats me half to death, but now it goes where you point it regardless of road condition - no surprises. No effect on lean, but help on quick maneuvers. Shocks only come into play during a change, not in a constant condition like a long turn.

So I'd go with sway bars first, then wheels and tires. No one is going to race a Cube so the rest is not that important.

 

[TrevorS]

So, I'm sure you all know the stock Cube suspension has issues with body roll and X-winds, but it does ride nicely. Very smooth indeed. I want to keep it at the that same quality and the same ride height, but want to minimize the body roll and stuff. Would lighter wheels (anything seems to be lighter than steelies w/hubcaps) and strut bars do the trick? Any info/help is good help! Thanks everyone.

The only real ways to reduce body roll is to reduce vehicle height, increase suspension spring rate, or increase rollbar resistance to roll (or some combination of the above). Increasing the rim diameter will also help (less cushioning from the tire sidewalls -- results in a harsher ride). Installing front or rear strut bars will have little effect unless you're engaging in slalom driving. The down side is that increasing the spring rate and/or the rollbar resistance to roll will result in a harsher ride. So, ultimately, it's mostly a question of body roll or tighter/harsher ride. Lowering the center of gravity will help, but you have to recognize this is normally accompanied with an increase in spring rate (resulting in a harsher ride).

 

[Square1]

Pretty much anything you do to reduce body roll is going to have a negative impact on the soft ride, to what degree depends on what you do. Larger wheels with tires that have a shorter side wall will firm up things a bit more, but will also cause your suspension to work harder since you're losing the tires ability to absorb bumps. Lowering springs will also do the trick, and although some will retain an almost stock ride for the most part, you will defineately feel the difference on a rather bumpy road. A good pair of matched anti roll bars would really help and wouldn't really have an effect on ride quality. Soooo, if you combine lowering springs with larger wheels and lower sidewall tires you can really combat the roll effect, but it will cost you ride comfort. No matter which way you go you stand a good chance of losing some ride comfort. Keep in mind that when a manufacture designs a cars suspension (especially in a non-sports car) they use a lot of compromise between handling and comfort, usually leaning towards the comfort aspect. So the bottom line is that you can do several things to improve the handling of your car, but as with anything there's alway's a trade off. - Dan

 

[cube-in]

the steel wheels and high wall tire's
they have a big squishy in them there sloppy
18 inch wheels low profile tires will fix that
but and how ever the body roll will not go away
just the tire flex and sag will leave you
oh ps and the the hub caps to

 

[TrevorS]

the steel wheels and high wall tire's
they have a big squishy in them there sloppy
18 inch wheels low profile tires will fix that
but and how ever the body roll will not go away
just the tire flex and sag will leave you
oh ps and the the hub caps to

Also, as you go to 18" and beyond rims, I do hope you don't have a road hazard issue where you live! That tallish sidewall helps a lot with potholes, speed bumps, railroad crossings, etc.

 

[relicxdude]

Okay squareone, here come the flames .... I just added the tanabe strut tower bar to my otherwise stock cube yesterday, and it is a dramatic difference. Anyone who says they don't make much difference has obviously not tried one yet, or has not properly installed it. By now, you probably already know this though. It was because of squareone's comments on the cube strut bar, that I almost called to cancel my order, after I had already ordered it. I'm so glad I went ahead, and got it. The car still has a good smoothe ride, but handling, and steering feel is greatly improved. No longer that disconnected feeling you read about in cube reviews. The ride is more rigid feeling, but still smoothe, and quiet just as I had hoped for. All for $119, and 30 minutes intall time ... That is the TRUTH.
[Sorry, I'm not a mean guy, I'm just really into TRUTH.]

 

[TrevorS]

Thanks for your input. I've been thinking about one of those strut tower braces too. I've always heard they only really make a difference with very quick driving, but if there's a noticable difference during every day driving/manouvering, then that sounds good to me.

 

[relicxdude]

Okay, now that I'm feeling better about things, .... I have to agree with squareone, in that because the cube is so short nosed, you would never expect a strut bar to make a noticable difference in it's stability, and handling.
Also, maybe I got lucky, and did everything right when I installed it. Maybe a lot of others installed theirs differently, and got different results .... I don't know. What I do know is if you do it exactly the way I did it, then you will get exactly the same results.
If you look in CUBE TALK under "Questions about tanabe strut bar", I have posted detailed instructions on how I installed the strut bar. I don't know if it is the magic combination, I just know I got better results than I have been hearing from others. Peace.